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Date: 03.02.2011
From: Jeff

Subject: "Curcumin is Superior to Steroidal (SAIDS) and Non-Steriodal (NSAIDS) Anti-Inflammatory Drugs"

"Curcumin is Superior to Steroidal (SAIDS) and Non-Steriodal (NSAIDS) Anti-Inflammatory Drugs"

Quote:

"Research shows curcumin acts as a scavenger of nitric oxide and inhibits COX-2, a pro-inflammatory substance. Also a potent scavenger of superoxide, the anti-inflammatory activity and superoxide scavenging property of curcumin are proven correlated. Clinically, curcumin has worked as well as cortisone or phenylbutazone for rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis and post-operative inflammation. (1-5)

Curcumin reduces acute pain and inflammation better than NSAID phenylbutazone (5) The anti-inflammatory activity of curcumin was evaluated in a group of patients who underwent surgery or suffered from trauma. A double-blind controlled-trial in which three groups received curcumin (400 mg/day), a placebo, or phenylbutazone (100 mg/day) for five consecutive days after surgery. Treatment with curcumin resulted in reduced inflammation more effectively than phenylbutazone. (5)

Phenylbutazone is a powerful analgesic (painkiller) and an NSAID (nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug). Unlike NSAIDS, which have dangerous side-effects and black-box warnings, curcumin is safe and has no side-effects, even at doses up to 8,000 mg per day. (10, 11)

Curcumin also inhibits COXs better than indomethacin, a currently prescribed mixed COX inhibitor. (6, 7)

A double-blind crossover study in patients with "definite" rheumatoid ...."

http://curcumin-turmeric.net/arthritis.html
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Date: 03.02.2011
From: Louise

Subject: Re:

Please can you stop plugging so called 'alternative medicines' without thought. Copy and pasting chunks of advertising is not helpful. Strange though that you did not copy and paste the small print at the bottom of the advert!

I have done it instead:

'Statements made herein have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.'

I need not say anymore!!
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Date: 03.02.2011
From: bsk

Subject: Re:

Nice one Louise!
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Date: 04.02.2011
From: Jeff

Subject: Re:

Either you are dim-witted, Louise, or just refuse to be educated. If you read the article and the results of the trials you will see that curcumin has been scientifically tested.

The disclaimer has to be included as a formality. Besides the FDA are the ones who said that Vioxx was safe, yet it was later proved to cause heart failure, and had to be withdrawn. See:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6192468.stm

This time read what it says, and not merley make biased knee-jerk reactions.
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Date: 04.02.2011
From: louise

Subject: Re:

Oh dear, so now you have to stoop to personal insults. Shame on you!!!!!!!!!

I know I would rather rely on medication approved by the relevant medical authorities. You say the disclaimer has to be included as a formality. But surely as an intelligent, well educated person, you must know that it is a legal cop out for the producers of these alternative medicines for when some unsuspecting consumer suffers as a result of taking the product.
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Date: 04.02.2011
From: JohnW

Subject: Re:

Can we please refrain from personal insults.

We are all entitled to our particular view and will interprete what is written, or indeed what is experienced, differently.

That is not to say one is right or one is wrong,it is up to the individual to decide for themselves.

There is nothing wrong with argument for that is how we all learn but let it be kept polite.
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Date: 04.02.2011
From: Jeff

Subject: Re:

I'm sorry if I was insulting, but Louise's response willfully ignored the positive content of the scientific research mentioned in the article. To do that, to me, seems a bit irrational and emotive. If she disagrees with the actual scientific study mentioned in the article, she should say why she disagrees rather than just saying that the FDA don't approve it.

Also, I notice, she has ignored the Vioxx example I gave, regarding the bad judgemt of the FDA in the licencing of the drug as being safe, when it in fact was not safe, and had to be withdrawn from the market. It is possible that she regards the FDA as infallible, if so then any less than considered responses from her should be dealt with on that basis.

It is these issues that she really needs to address if any sort of rational discussion is to be had.
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Date: 04.02.2011
From: Louise

Subject: Re:

I have not wilfully ignored anything! I do not regard the FDA as infallible! I did not say that I disagreed with the scientific study mentioned!

You have been careful to only copy and paste information that suits your cause. If all the studies and research are so positive then why has manufacturer not got full approval from the FDA?
Manufacturers would 'give their right arm' for full FDA approval of their medicines as sales would rocket and after all they are in the business of making money!

Lastly, if you want a rational discussion then why resort to insults?
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Date: 04.02.2011
From: Jeff

Subject: Re:

I have already apologized for the insult.

If, as you say, you do not disagree with the article, then why do you insist that the FDA approves of the treatment the article advocates, especially given the mistake the FDA made with Vioxx?

Surely, if you really do think the FDA is not infallible, then why be so blindly trusting of it?

The reason the FDA does not approve of natural treatments is explained here:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-The-FDA-Suppresses-Natural-Remedies-and-Cures&id=643078
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Date: 04.02.2011
From: bsk

Subject: Re:

Louise, I agree with your point.

Jeff, we are not here to be lectured to. This is a forum for people with arthritis, which you say you haven't even been diagnosed with yet. I really don't understand your agenda. You talk about rational discussion but on other threads you've dismissed conventional medicines out of hand, which is hardly rational. As I said somewhere else, it's not necessarily one or the other.

In any case, I think cutting and pasting text and advertising products is against forum rules and if you continue to do that I will contact the forum moderator - except I will then deprive myself of much amusement and entertainment from reading your posts. Hmmm!
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Date: 04.02.2011
From: Louise

Subject: Re:

So Jeff, it's ok to be blindly trusting of a manufacturer out to make a profit is it? I certainly know whom I'd rather trust.
You really are getting yourself in rather a knot aren't you.
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Date: 04.02.2011
From: Jeff

Subject: Re:

You still haven't addressed the info on the FDA and its approval procedure for alternative medicine. All your responses are notable for their lack of addressing the various links I have given.

I am not blindly trusting a manufacturer. I am trusting the scientific study that the manufactuer quotes on its website.

The curcumin article didn't mention anything about a particular brand of curcumin being effective in RA. The scientific study the article mentions says All curcumin, whatever brand is effective.

Just because a website that sells a brand of curcumin chose to mention this scientific study to sell its brand, doesn't mean the scientific study is advocating that brand. Any website can use any scientific evidence it finds to sell its products without that negating the truth of what that scientific evidence proves. You seem not to have noticed this distinction.
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Date: 04.02.2011
From: Jeff

Subject: Re:

bsk, I am not advertising anything. All I am drawing attention to is a scientific study mentioned on a website that happens to be selling something. I can find a link to the scientific study on a website that isn't selling something if this will make you happy. In fact here is one:

http://arthritis-research.com/content/12/4/R127

This is from a site not selling anything.

It seems you and Louise are, for some reason, wary of any form of treatment that doesn't include drugs. Why, I don't know. Maybe you have had so many disapoointments in the past with alternative medicine it has made you negative about it. If so, that is understandable from your point of view.

But there will be people visiting this forum who are not as biased as you are and will want to see the alternative treatments available. It is for those people that I have made my posts.
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Date: 04.02.2011
From: Louise

Subject: Re:

So you wish to discuss your ezinearticles link.

You want me to take seriously an article by a Mr Milligan who joined ezine on the 1st of July 2007 wrote 11 'articles' in the space of a couple of months, who does not seem to have published since on that website or for that matter anywhere else.

Ezinearticles provides a service to ANYONE who wishes to submit an article on pretty much ANYTHING they wish, it is hardly the Lancet is it!!!
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Date: 04.02.2011
From: dolly

Subject: Re:

hey jeff, you said you were going to stop posting. the people on this site were quite pleased with this solution. yes this would of been a solution, not to hear alot of "negative". it might all not be negative but its not positive or anything helpful in how to think positive in dealing with RA. people come on this site to share there stories wether it be helpful or not, or good or bad. its helpful to talk to people who have to live the same way, so why dont you wait till you get to that place where you're living the way we are with no other choices or very minimal choices and then come back to share a story with us about "ok now i know what you people are dealing and living with". just stop upsetting these other RA patients. come back to this site when you really understand.
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Date: 04.02.2011
From: Lynn B

Subject: Re:

Jeff, why are you so bent on upsetting everyone on this forum??? Does it realy matter to you that much what kind of treatment people choose for themselves,You are like a dog with a bone at the moment.... Can you not see how much you are upsetting a lot of people!! For what purpose I just cant fathom.. I honestly come on this forum If I want advise, a laugh, a rant, tell a joke,try and help with advise, but if i chose to take a certain road with medication and other people dont agree then thats fine... We have all got our own minds and the last i heard we were free to live without being Dictated to I am sorry but you have given your opinion if people want to know more they will ask you. Please dont keep shoving it down our throats !
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Date: 04.02.2011
From: dolly

Subject: Re:

go lynn go, go lynn go. perfectly said, couldnt have said it better myself, you took the words right out of my mouth, thats what i was trying to say anyway.
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Date: 05.02.2011
From: bsk

Subject: Re:

'Maybe you have had so many disapoointments in the past with alternative medicine it has made you negative about it'

That made me laugh Jeff! Read again what you have written. Disappointments with alternative medicines...

I've said to you more than once that I am not against complimentary medicine. But I use it to COMPLIMENT my other choices. It seems to me that you are the one that is totally opposed to drugs. Would you say to someone with heart disease there were better alternatives to conventional heart drugs? Would you say to someone with cancer to try alternative choices? Many of those who have taken that route have died, however, many lives are saved by chemotherapy. Until you have found yourself in the very difficult position of making a seriously life changing decision about your treatment I suggest you respect the views of those on here who are doing precisely that.
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Date: 06.02.2011
From: Jeff

Subject: Re:

I'm sorry that you all don't want to be cured of your illness, and are brainwashed by the drugs companies. You obviously find it preferable to wallow in your illness than to look for a cure. Very sad.

I've wasted enough time trying to help you, so I will make no more posts here.
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Date: 06.02.2011
From: Lynn B

Subject: Re:

At Last "Thank You"
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Date: 06.02.2011
From: bsk

Subject: Re:

So Jeff was trying to help us get 'cured' from our illness and stop us wallowing! How arrogant can you get? He thinks he really knows better than those of us with arthritis and our health care providers, purely from research on the web. If only life were so simple!
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Date: 06.02.2011
From: KayJay

Subject: Re:

Don't stress girls - it is probably someone ' flaming ' for fun. ie a person who joins forums just to cause arguments / flaming wars. Sad I know but just ignore it.
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Date: 06.02.2011
From: dolly

Subject: Re:

like i keep saying, jeff you dont have a clue. when your RA kicks in and you want to come back on this site, you think anybody will reply to you then, NOT!
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Date: 06.02.2011
From: bsk

Subject: Re:

Hi KJ, I've been quite enjoying his posts in a perverse way!

How are you these days anyway?
Sally
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Date: 07.02.2011
From: KayJay

Subject: Re:

Hi Sally not at all bad. Just general aching all over and sooo tired all the time. Go to see the Rheumie next week for the results of the Isotope scan. And how are you ?
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Date: 07.02.2011
From: davina

Subject: Re:

hi sorry to be nosey but i hate people like jeff
he obviously has no idea how RA impacts people and how difficult it can be for them and their families, if he does have RA like us here god help him has he is very ignorant to this disease and effects it has on your body.

hope everyone is well
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Date: 07.02.2011
From: bsk

Subject: Re:

hi Kay, Not too bad. Started on Cimzia last week so waiting for that to kick in.Reliant on steroids at the mo.
The tiredness is so debilitating isn't it? I feel the same way some days.
xx
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