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Date: 01.07.2009
From: Della

Subject: Why RA is developed

ok for those who know a bit about me you will know this is all new to me at the moment so please be gentle with me lol. My question is i do believe like most in here that diet and exercise are good for RA i don't believe it will cure it as there is no cure. But my question is if it was the way we eat which made us get it in the firdt place how come there are young children whos parents i feel proberly more in this day and age now, is trying to feed them healthy why do they have RA? they are young children who have eaten well proberly exercise lots and yet still get it. So my opinion is no way is it caused by the way u eat maybe i'm wrong and someone can shed some light on it for me.
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Date: 01.07.2009
From: val h

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

think that one 4 blogger and wayno. i have ostioarthritis so do not know much about r a good point u making though the children come from parents wonder what there diet was like before the birth .
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Date: 01.07.2009
From: Blogger

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

Could there be a link with Flu would be interesting to monitor cases of swine flu and who then got RA soon after

You are right about healthy eating/living I see no link with people who eat badly. Just that you feel better if you are looking after your body once you are diagnosed and that in itself assists the immune system where as you did not before it dragged the immune system further down.
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Date: 01.07.2009
From: Jill

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

What i dont kinda get, its the Enbrel and MTX is to stop the Immune system working, so that the disease(in my case anyway) stops attacking me!..ive had it expalined so many times to me, but give it a months and i forget ... memory is bad, never had such a nad memory as I have now...I feel its linked to the Meds... but I know I wld be far worse off if I wasnt on them...also i was born with HLA b27Pos, which Predisposed me to Reiters, which has lea me to have Inflamatory type of Artha, but the Meds r same if the joints r bad enuff...anyone got any info there, Bloggsy?
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Date: 01.07.2009
From: Blogger

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

only whats on the Arfur Itis sites I no doctor I know if I do things that affect my immune system its like turning a dimmer switch down on a light bulb I noticed this when I was in my twenties example drinking alcohol
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Date: 01.07.2009
From: Jill

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

lol corse ya no doc lol.... thanks tho, hey bloggs thought U drank a fair bit? or did i read that incorrectly? apologies if I have
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Date: 01.07.2009
From: Blogger

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

I now keep within the Chief Medical officers advisory limits but that is simply because I would fall of a stool if I drank more at my age.

Perhaps also more contented in life
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Date: 01.07.2009
From: Della

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

I hardly ever drink now so is it ok to have a couple of drinks now and again with the meds i love malabu and pineapple and also a glass of wine occasionally but haven't drank anything since going on meds.some good points made there thanks for all the answers.
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Date: 01.07.2009
From: Angela

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

Hiya Della, I dont feel this illness has anything to do with diet either.Some say it is a dis-ease within yourself, and you need to find the root cause, but again that doesn't answer why children get it.
It is a real puzzle to me.
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Date: 01.07.2009
From: Blogger

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

Some doctors in other countries have linked people stopping drinking alcohol when diagnosed with RA then having a Heart Attack where those that continued to enjoy a sensible drink were OK could the answer be no BINGE drinking
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Date: 01.07.2009
From: Della

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

exactly angela when u r young and carefree no stress why would u get it. baffles me as well.
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Date: 01.07.2009
From: wayno

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

hi guys
sorry about the lack of an explanation for children with ra as im sure youll all be dreading i do have one,lol
but seriously its a very good question and i really dont thank della for fielding it because its something that ive been trying to get out of talking about since the subject arose in a very sad thread that im sure weve all read.
ive just taken an hour nearly to answer this and the bloody computer crashed as i was logging my adress at the bottom. damn!!
i dont have time to do it again as my wife will kill me but i will say that i have been avoiding the question because ive been afraid of upsetting the parents of these children by making potentially hurtful claims on this very very delicate subject.
you just cannot talk about other peoples children or how they have been raised ,i know i have two myself.
i will post a message tomorrow morning and i think youll find it very interesting and somewhat helpful.
ill post more tomorrow but its made my head hurt.lol
all will be explained in whats gonna be a long winded tome im afraid.
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Date: 01.07.2009
From: val h

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

we wait with baited breath wayno feel 4 the kids so un fair such pain at such young ages
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Date: 01.07.2009
From: Amelia

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

some people say RA can be caused from having an infection for a long time!!! I suspect thats why i have it as i had pleursy (fluid on lungs) for 9/10 weeks.
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Date: 01.07.2009
From: val h

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

poor u life can b so unfair hope u notto bad?
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Date: 01.07.2009
From: Della

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

aww amelia u poor thing funny but they think mine started because i had an infection on the end of my finger which i thought would go but it didn't anyway i eventually went on antibiotics and 2 days later this all started, although my mum has it badly her fingers are all deformed they go round corners and my nan had it as well.
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: val h

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

della sounds as if u were destined to get it sorry keep doing exercises to help strenthen muscles around joints as will help keep them straighter (so i read some where).
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: Della

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

Well i had double the dose of steroids today val and even this morning ive got hardly any pain and they do feel a lot easier to move so im crossing everything it works this time as last time it only lasted a day so i'm not gona jump for joy just yet.
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: Emma

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

I look forward to reading Wayno's post later today. I trust that he will state what is in his OPINION and what is quoted from evidence based research carried out by appropriately qualified medical researchers (with links to support his post)
At least then we will be able to see where his thoughts, ideas, comments are coming from.
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: Jill

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

well said Emma.... however, and sad to say, many children are sick from so many diseases, my beautiful full term son was born with Total anomaly pulmonary venus drainage,,,the rarest heart defect there is...there r 7, and hsi was the seventh!...he was one day old when he died.... So in regards to defects, illnesses, I still to this day wonder how this happened, the heats specialists told me, it was just one of those things, began in the womb as the cells began to formthe heart, brain etc... his main artery misrouted...I still suffer from losing him to this day..... stress has a lot to anser for in adults, ive also had Acromegaly....gone now, brtought on by stress, its a benign tumour in the pituatry gland..... anyway...too all those beautiful innocent children wverywhere, god bless u.... ps I also have anotehr son, now 11, who had a hole in the heart, had op in guys at 2year 11 months, thankg god hes now fine.... but that is something i will never get over either, becos the two heart defects both my babies had, are tottaly unrelated!... also btw my eldest daughter has scoliosis, mildly, and my other daughter had a bulging disc, and broken cartledge in the knee caps.... How did this all hapeen, no one can tell me!... Like Aspergers, what causes these Illnessses... Im gobsmaked!... love to all x
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: val h

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

u have quite a load on your plate jill. hard to think how u cope and stay as up beat on here as u do. i bet even with all the problems u would not b without them? and i bet they bring so much happy ness to u
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: Jill

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

ya rite there Val...they r my world...its manic here when they r all in....there is love...fights, arguing LOl and more arguing...and then Love again LOL wot a life... wouldnt change it for the world.... apart from the aches and pains etc... rang the spine surgeons secretary yest. have an appt in aug, just check up, but I need to go in hosp and have anoterh spine injection , Shes hoping to get me in asap, after that, spine op!! cant keep having the jabs, cos I need corrective surgery...hey ho...rite val..today u jsut wear a Blouse, cotton trews? or maybe a dress...sorted xx
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: val h

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

dont do dresses legs bit fat( rub together when get warm yuk )could ask 4 tips 4 that one :-)will wear cotton trews and blouse might wear shorts to work change when get there?
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: Jill

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

Y cant u wear shorts at work Val? is it in an office?
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: Lynne A

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

Wow Jill what a heck of a time you've had over the years.. sorry to hear about your traumas. Make me put thing into perspective and think well yes I am ill but there's always somebody worse off and they are coping so come on and enjoy life.

Good luck to you and your family
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: Della

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

Jill u r one very special lady makes u wonder i know why it happens but they say life is trying sometimes god is it ever. Bit like my mum and dad my dad smoked and so did my mum well so did i but given up now for 7 years anyway things were a bit different years ago we didn't know so much about smoking anyway my point is as a young man my dad had tuberculotis and had damaged lungs but 7 1/2 years ago he ended up in hospital very ill with pnhumonia and nearly died anyway he didnt and he came home but with breathing difficultys anyway to cut it short he developed emphesimia enede up on oxygen 24/7 and died an awful death in the space of 15 months anyway 3 years later my mum developed it and has emphesema and i am devastated as i fear now i'm now going to have to watch my mum go the same way. I know ppl will say well it was self inflicted yes it was but things were different in their day it was the norm to smoke but my point is it makes u wonder like u jill how things can happen twice to the same person. Life just isnt fair sometimes but hey usually i'm a really jolly happy person yes i have problems but like everyone in here we all have stress in our lives and i have never met anyone who doesn't have a hard time now and again .stay happy everyone x
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: Jill

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

della thank you for your kind words,I didnt intend to mention it, but I kinda wanted us lot on here to not forget that others suffer other types of sickness not just r.a. however, It would crucify me if any of my kids had R.A., I just wanted to highlight that other conditions are life threatening....anyway, another good topic from u Della, glad your feeling a little better , and god bless your mummy, I lost mY mum to Breast cancer ten yers ago... and two after my mum died my dad had a brain tumour! thedy were my best friends...anyway, not goona get all dismal, Love to u and yours xxxx
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: Jill

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

btw Lynne thanks for your kind words, like u lot say, I always think to myself theres always someone far worse offf...and there is, i know that much... but I guess ive had my fair share of rotten crap and probably lots more of it yet to come , losing a child is unbearable....nowt worse than that, thats Y I went on to have so many lovely babies, wish i cld have more, but this lot r hard work LOL

... saw a post for Occilating fans ? They r the best, and fab at night..and I wear Ear plugs cos my fella SNORES!!! Bu hes gone camping in Cornwall, lol gusss wot? its raininggggggggggg PMSL LOL...... awwwww shame and his air bed went flat in the night.. didums I said.....Me, well I had the best sleeeep in months! LOL, and im ear plug freee 2, for this week anyway! never forget when I took my 2 kids to school and this is the truth, I had one stuck in my ear lol, I meet my best m8 most days at the school gate, we have a chat or a nag lol, and she spotted it, I didnt even notice it, bloody things dont work really, well not for Snores likr his, its like a Pnumatic drill, he Snores in and then Snores out! So I get a double dose of Snoring !!!
I buy the ones from sainsburys, they r the best,(sort of, if u dont have my fella in bed with u) but cos my fellla Snores so LOUD I have to push them in sooooooo deeep, gives me ear ache too!! blidddy men huh, cos we women defo dont snore, do we LOLOLOL
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: val h

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

shop with office bosses dont like shorts mind u with the bruise on leg not sure would even if they did not frown on it (it 4inc by 3inc)very black and blue does not hurt much very strange can just imagine comments from customers would spend all day telling them oh kicked me lol
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: Lynne A

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

Chat Room Queen ... Keep on truckin Girl.. we need more Rofl 's and a few more Lmao 's
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: Jill

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

will do my god dam best Lynne x
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: Della

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

haha yippee forum sounds like its back to its old self thank god hey jill has your man tryed those sticky things u stick across the nose saw them advertised on telly if my hubby snores i just kick him by accident of course lol usually does the trick haha.
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: Della

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

haha yippee forum sounds like its back to its old self thank god hey jill has your man tryed those sticky things u stick across the nose saw them advertised on telly if my hubby snores i just kick him by accident of course lol usually does the trick haha.
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: Della

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

haha yippee forum sounds like its back to its old self thank god hey jill has your man tryed those sticky things u stick across the nose saw them advertised on telly if my hubby snores i just kick him by accident of course lol usually does the trick haha.
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: Jill

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

lolol....yea but my fellla(been maried twice ) is 6ft5 and his feet are always Freeeeeezing, hes got diabetis, so bad circulation....and when he wakes up, he tries to snugggle his feeel all over me! thank god ive got a King size bed lol yea mite buy some for him...just thiught they mite be a fad..and they cost a lot too... worth a try tho
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: wayno

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

we all know i bang on about having a whole foods diet and for good reason.
its funny della that in your post you state that were all healthy and eat well or even eat healthily?
this is by no means an attack by the way but a point that needs making.
none of us on this forum including myself are healthy and furthermore i believe that with the exception of myself ,no one on this forum is eating heathily or living a healthy lifestyle.
lets go back in time and look at our diet and what went wrong... early humans eat the original whole foods diet,when they could get it!
they had tough lives and there main stress was to find food and stay alive.
these people have been shown to have arthritis but wear and tear arthritis mainly in the shoulders and knees of the men folk.
this type of arthritis will always be around no matter what.
so when did wear and tear arthritis become ra?
if we look back at human disease throughout human evolutionary history,agriculture and urban living have had a profound effect on disease.
we have two types of disease infectious disease and non-communicable disease but by far the most dominant of these diseases in pre industrialised times was infectious disease.
since the start ofthe industrial revolution approx 300 years ago the dominant disease type has become non communicable diseases.
much of the reason for this is sanitation and eradication due to drugs but the main cause for this is the sheer amount ofnon communicable disease around today.
della you say we are better fed than ever? well actually were not we have never had such nutritionally poor diets.
yes we may be full up with bread and such like but that does not mean were well nourished.
to cut a long story short ......we see a child born and think its a brand new entity a pure untouched source of human brilliance.
guess what? its not!
a wonderful joyous thing it may be but its an unhealthy child before its even taken its first breath.
since the start of the industrial revolution when we have subjected ourselves to all sorts of occupations,enviroments and chemicals that have weakened us genetically.
if we look at an early human as a plant ,that plant would be green healthy and vibrant but in rcenent history it has turned into a festering disease riddle mutation of the gorgeous plant it used to be, no wonder the fruit is so tarnished!!!!!
the evidence is irrefutable and well documented !!
http://www.cambridge.org/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=9780521617376&ss=exc
is just one book you should of read!!!
there is so much stuff on the internet about this but we ignore it?
you know what i suggest as the cure so its up to you.
children will continue to be born with diseases like ra if we dont get ourselves healthy.
our forefathers gave us this fully expected little present knowing full well it would come home to roost and all we do is continue the trend blindly for our children to inherit.
its sick!
but it makes money and thats what makes the world go round.
we are all aware of climate change and try to stop that for generations of humans to come but we have saddled ourselves with an equally bad problem and that is the huge damage we have caused to our genetics.
im a little tired so have left large gaps untouched so we can discuss them without this being a long rant.
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: Emma

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

'Children are born with diseases like R.A.' - is this your opinion or scientific fact?

Early humans could be likened to the annuals in our gardens - healthy and vigorous for a short time, spreading their seed and dying quickly, whereas modern humans more like roses,
suseptable to diseases, but long lived, the longer they live the weaker they become, eventually wilting away.
Improved medicines and diet has enabled modern humans to live useful lives far longer than our ancestors.
The diseases of the modern day are perhaps the price we pay for those extra years.
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: wayno

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

emma genetic problems would run through in all plants and animals as i say its a cumulitive effect on our genes over time,the plant i speak of did after all come form another plant.
like the rose you speak of which has been selectively bread to produce a good flower over hundreds of years.
proves my point nicely ,thanks.
its scientific fact that some children are born with ra?
why should the diseases of the modern day be a price we have to pay for longer life?
thats one of the main points of the piece em , we dont have to but we do because its so easy to do.
why do we keep accepting our fate?
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Date: 02.07.2009
From: No Reply

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

No reply....
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Date: 03.07.2009
From: Emma

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

You have not really answerered the initial question of why RA has developed?
There is evidence of R.A. many, many centuries ago, way before the industrial revolution, modern medicine and a diet full of a cocktail of chemicals. Also, recent epidemiolgy studies show that the prevalance of R.A. is decreasing.
Juvenile idiopathic arthritis is of unknown aetiology. It is thought that many cases develop after the genetically susceptable child has had an infection, I cannot find any studies that show that children are born with JIA, only that they are born with a genetic trait.

Obviously the longer we live for the more chances we have of developing one of the so called 'modern diseases'. We all have to accept that our fate is to die, how long we live for in the modern world is down to our genes, our lifestyle, but more importantly the availability of medical treatments. With out the medicines available today it is unlikely that you and i would be here today to have this debate.
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Date: 03.07.2009
From: wayno

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

if were going to copy and paste the big words show me the evidence!
The scarcity of references in ancient medical literature to any disease resembling rheumatoid arthritis (RA) has led many WEstern rheumatologists to believe that rheumatoid arthritis is a disease of relatively recent origin. In a recent paper on this problem, Short traces the first adequate description of what was probably rheumatoid arthritis to Thomas Sydenham (1624-1689) and emphasizes that European and Greek medical literature before Sydenham's time may have confused gout and other forms of polyarthritis as manifestations of the same disease (1). Studies in human paleopathology have as yet produced no convincing evidence for the existence of RA in ancient human remains.

The incidence of rheumatoid arthritis among American women has unexpectedly jumped in recent years, according to new research from Mayo Clinic investigators

More children are suffering from arthritis than ever before. Unpublished data released June, 2007 from a study conducted jointly by the American College of Rheumatology and the American Academy of Pediatrics states nearly 300,000 children in the United States have significant arthritis
sorry for the cutting and pasteing but im a little busy at the mo.
it is ludicrous to state that without modern medicine we wouldnt be here to have this debate.
sanitation and education have been vey effective in keeping us alive.
drugs have helped hugely dont get me wrong but they havnt saved the world!
they also kill a huge amount of people each year.
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Date: 03.07.2009
From: Emma

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

You might 'copy and paste the big words'
But don't assume we are all like you!

Mercola rules, NOT!
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Date: 03.07.2009
From: wayno

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

you fool
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Date: 03.07.2009
From: Lynne A

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

There is no need for that!!!
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Date: 03.07.2009
From: Emma

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

It's ok Lynne, he is just showing his dark side yet again.
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Date: 03.07.2009
From: Amelia

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

i really like this forum but, Wayno is really getting on my nerves. Haven't been a member long and he is really ruining it for me with your little snipes at people and your know it all facts why can't you just get the hint and leave people alone.

I don't normally get involved when it comes to people like that but it's ruining a really good forum and putting people off.
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Date: 03.07.2009
From: Jill

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

Hi Amelia, I know wot ya mean, but I know got so bored, I did as lynne suggested and totally ignore the slime ball lol...makes me feel good and empowers me, I control It!, rather than him making me Look nasty, thank god the gls already new me b4 the sly crap from him and me to him also.... But ive stopped it now...I now realise that HE thinks hes a Dictionary, Athesaurus, a Medical advisor, Food expert LOL...just let him beleive it, and Ignore him... I skip past all his comments, but realise hes still doing it when ppl have their say....Amelia, stick with this forum, we need U also, we like to help others and we all need others support...providing its froma goood source that is. take care x
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Date: 03.07.2009
From: Amelia

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

Hi jill i will deffo stick with this forum i enjoy it and won't let the loon ruin it for me i agree if he is ignored he will go away lol
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Date: 03.07.2009
From: Jill

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

lol....goood on ya, where bouts r u in the Uk Amelia, I may have asked b4, but I have got a baddddd memory LOL
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Date: 05.07.2009
From: vicky

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

my gp told me you can develop me after having an infection cuz your body starts to attack your joints/tissue around the joint? I eat quite well but from speaking to my cardiologist there are a number of young adults with RA who also have heart conditions so maybe its summat todo with our cromazones?
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Date: 05.07.2009
From: Jill

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

(((((lots of hugs 4 u Vicky, from all of us )))))
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Date: 06.07.2009
From: Amelia

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

Hi Jill,
sorry for the late reply went camping the weekend!!! I must be totally mad it was freezing and my joints didn't hold up to well either:(
I'm from the West midlands.
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Date: 06.07.2009
From: jill

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

nice one, im going campin in 5 weeks to cornwall LOl Im gonna feel like u did..but ive a a full week of it... I do love camping and I take all my luxurys, pillows duvets etc...even a rug...candles the lot...just hope the weather is good, cos my fellla is there now with his son and its been peeeing all week, hes got another week ther lol... been gr8 here...east sussex... LOL
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Date: 06.07.2009
From: val h

Subject: Re: Why RA is developed

make sure u take the sun with u jill then u will have a great time
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