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Date: 07.05.2015
From: Sean

Subject: What are Citrullinated Proteins?

Hi Guys


We know that Anti-Circulating-Citrulinated-Proteins can start to be present even 10 years before onset of RA symptoms - but are 98% present in RA sufferers.

I found something today that I have been seeking for years :) - and it related to what Colin described in Merry's thread regarding ACCP.

This new study published just 2 weeks ago!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25892475

It says....

CONCLUSION:

'A monoclonal ACPA (CCP-Ab1) derived from RA patients was demonstrated for the first time to cross-react not only with various autoantigens but also with numerous plant and microbial proteins. We propose that countless environmental factors, including microbes and diet, may trigger the generation of ACPAs that then cross-react with various citrullinated human autoantigens through molecular mimicry to induce RA.'

So now they are saying... that once you are creating antibodies against cittrulinated protein - that further antibodies can then be created by other cross reacting proteins - which can be dietary (including plants!) or bacterial.... which is what some of us had long time suspected.

To put in to layman's terms - the implications of this are

1) A small amount of our own tissue undergoes a biological process called cittrulination (this is very very similar to deamination in Celaic disease)

2) Cittrulination of a protein is caused by a bacteria (Porphyromonas gingivalis) usually in the gums spreading to the gut - reference below

http://ec.europa.eu/research/health/medical-research/severe-chronic-diseases/projects/gums-and-joints_en.html

3) The citrullinated protein gets through the gut wall (due to increased gut permeability)

4) The new piece of jigsaw is that many dietary (and other bacterial proteins) can get through the gut and mimic the original citrullinated protein - creating zillions of antibodies

5) Remember the first trigger was a modified self protein - So loss of tolerance and immune confusion ensues as the body is creating so many antibodies that the ones that are mis-directed against other self proteins are not deleted / regulated in the Thymus
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Date: 07.05.2015
From: Sean

Subject: Re: What are Citrullinated Proteins?

If anyone prefers picture's - here is a great one.. this one links to above, but suggests that immune tolerance relies on a good gut balance also.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ad/2015/636207/fig5/

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ad/2015/636207/
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Date: 07.05.2015
From: Julie

Subject: Re: What are Citrullinated Proteins?

interesting Sean I have read the links, a bit over my head but I do get the gist of it.

It is a pity that the NHS don't have a questionnaire/tick list with questions to ask before we are diagnosed, like for example if lately we have ever had a staphy infection or if we have had stomach problems or other illness's and when we had them. Then there could be early warning signs for people to look out for like they do with other health problems.

Keep researching Sean we are all waiting for you to come up with the answer!!

I still haven't got round to trying a gluton free diet but everytime I read one of your links I say to my hubby I must try it, but I am such a faddy eater I don't know if I could do it. If its not got chocolate in it I don't want to eat it:)
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Date: 07.05.2015
From: Sean

Subject: Re: What are Citrullinated Proteins?

Hi Julie

No need to give up nice stuff on a gluten free diet!

I love chocolate too... especially Montezuma's Lime and Ginger and G&Blacks Maya Gold.

I love hot chocolate with Cocoa & Almond Milk and a dash of honey.

We bake a lot at home too - there are great cake recipes out there with Rice Flour or Almond Flour. I swear you can't tell the difference.
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Date: 08.05.2015
From: Colin W

Subject: Re: What are Citrullinated Proteins?

Sean , thanks for the information , known for ages there is a link betteen what we eat & how our body react , but the trigers are different , I am ok with milk etc but some fruits & veg have to stay clear of & products with breadcrumbs even though I am ok with bread

Julie you seem to be alot like mtself & dont think gluton free will help you , not saying its not worth trying , things like peas , lettace , tomatoes , apples & oranges & most berries , are part of what causes myself problems
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Date: 08.05.2015
From: Julie

Subject: Re: What are Citrullinated Proteins?

Hi Colin, yes I think so too our paths are similar, but yours has been a heck of a lot harder. tomatoes apples oranges and brambles are lethal to me. But I am okay with apple juice - strange.

Got my last results this morning and at last my CRP is down to 0.64 what a long road its been. Plus I can now see 10 knuckles lol. But I think I might look into the gluten diet and just see how it affects me, anything is worth a try plus might be good for my body to have a good cleanse!

Sean you have said the magic words - no need to give up nice stuff on gluten free diet - like a lot of people I thought that it is going to be a very plain boring eating plan. I did buy a book last year but since moving here I cant find a thing but I will have another look for it. Maybe Mrs Sean would write out a recipe for us using rice flour or almond flour.
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Date: 20.05.2015
From: Sean

Subject: Re: What are Citrullinated Proteins?

Hi Julie / Colin

I'm quite sure that food allergens in arthritis will be grouped by shared proteins in the foods - lots of vegetables and fruits contain similar proteins. For example all these foods are grouped by a shared allergen - noted apples and lettuce in this list - if your allergic to one then you are more likely (but not definitely) to be allergic to these other ones.

(A: Peach; B: Apple; C: Cherry; D: Apricot; E: Plum; F: Pear; G: Strawberry; H: Almond; I: Walnut; J: Hazelnut; K: Peanut; L: Maize; M: Rice; N: Lettuce; O: Kiwi; P: Tomato; Q: Lentil; R: Saffron; S: Melon; T: Pistachio; U: Onion; V: Rucola; W: Cashew; X: Pineapple; Y: Fennel;Z: Other nuts (Brazil nut, coconut, macadamia nut); OF: Other Foods (Bell pepper) )

http://www.eurannallergyimm.com/cont/journals-articles/315/volume-patients-with-syndrome-foodspecific-show-844allasp1.pdf

I had a theory that the treatment of Apple juice makes it less likely to trigger an immune response - and found this -

https://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream/123456789/320931/1/online+version.pdf

(Conclusion: The conclusion to be drawn from these results is that the combination of HP and thermal processing is an effective method to reduce the allergenicity of both apple and celeriac.)

It's all about proteins - and whether they are left in a state that contain appropriate amino acid sequences (following citrullination) to cross react with our own tissues and mimic other proteins to which we have antibodies to. BTW carrots are more allergic when raw.

Depending on the food heating it up can make it either more or less of a potential allergen.

For example normal milk is apparently more allergic and inflammatory when pasteurised due to a protein modification - unless you use A2 milk from Guernsey cows - Some farmers are breeding cows that only produce A2 milk as A1 milk is strongly implicated in type 1 autoimmune diabetes - and autism. The EU did a study and decided that there was not enough evidence to cause upheaval to the milk industry. But there's definitely smoke, and lots of little fires burning on this - I give it 5 to 10 years.

Article about A2 milk....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17666771

"Milk has been known to cause arthritis in studies....(symptomatic exacerbation of inflammatory arthritis with immunologic hypersensitivity to milk in this patient. This observation suggests new insights in the pathogenesis of inflammatory joint disease and its therapeutic control.!!)"

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/art.1780290210/abstract

Good to see the website back! ☺️ Sean
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