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Date: 11.04.2015
From: Barry

Subject: Plagued by arthritis

Hi yah, I have osteoarthritis in just about every major joint in my body, I can't truly believe that the wear and tear effect has occurred everywhere, I'm 63, been active but not crazy with it, diet I try to work on,I do have sondylosis lower back and neck, any of you guys plagued like this, barry
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Date: 11.04.2015
From: Ella

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Hi Barry I have osteoarthritis and I too was quite an active person. Mine mainly effects the hips and shoulder. It has been found that a gluten free diet can be beneficial for people suffering with any of the sero neg forms of arthritis. I watch what I eat and maintain a healthy weight well within the recommended BMI for my height. Excess weight is not good for the joints.
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Date: 11.04.2015
From: lois

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Hi Barry, I have OA and have had for 30 odd years I am roughly the same age as you. My OA is also in almost every joint. My feet are the newest culprit.
I had surgery on my elbow 30 years ago and I didn't realise at the time this was the start for me. I always had a shoulder niggle at the same time and had steroid injections for that.
A few years back my disc slipped because my spine has OA so I had surgery for that. It cured the sciatica but the back pain from OA is still there.
My wrists fingers one knee both shoulders and now my feet along with the back pain and breast bone pain not at all good.
I was quiet sporty but not now I couldn't if I tried. I always thought my elbow was a casualty of going to the Gym.
Can I ask do you have good pain killers for your worst days?
After my back surgery I was so stiff everywhere they sent me to the Hydro Pool it was great but only allowed 30 minutes or so once a week for 6 weeks. Ask about this for yourself. I was also told not to swim in water that was too cold.

I feel for you it is really tough but life is still great just different.
Take care and I hope this post is helpful feel free to ask any questions you may have.
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Date: 11.04.2015
From: Barry

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Hi, thank you so much for your speedy replies, I have osteo in right big toe and ankle, both knee caps ,with neuropathy down both shins, tops of feet, ankylosing spondylosis,Tennis and golfers elbow, arthritis both wrists, in the pisiform,arthritis in my lower neck, spondylosis there into thoracic,arthritis upper neck(atlas bone area), that also affects jaw both sides, am prone to trigeminal nueralgia, and also have very loud tinnitus, most of this for some 8 years now, in all, I live on tramadol, and each capsule I take I get maximum value from, mainly because wherever it travels there's arthritis. I'm not overweight,in fact I'm really skinny, 4 years ago I lost 20 kilos in 20 weeks approx, for no obvious reason at all. I am going back on glucosimine, magnesium ,that I take in pill form and oil massage, and hydrolysed egg protein, and fish oils, and apple cider vinegar, even so can't stop the aggresiveness of this disease. My feet now giving me problems, plus I've had sinus infection since Xmas, and that hurts every time I blink. Sorry about that lot, I still get around, but I'm on my own with this thing, I do have a bulge in my vertebrae lower back, plus my spine is twisted into an S shape there, I also have a cyst on my spine in my dural tube at S3, I think that's it, I have to laugh because ATOS have just declared me fit to go back to work, bless them. Stretching I find important, short walks, diet is difficult, really difficult, don't smoke, drink, but biscuits, I love them. Please keep in touch, company so important, we can share ideas as well, thanks, barry
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Date: 11.04.2015
From: Barry

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Ella, really tried hard to get off of gluten, I believe it takes a year to clear the system, Louis , love the sound of a hydro pool, I'd stay in there for good, oh and I've arthritis right hip as well, take care ( I didn't), barry
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Date: 11.04.2015
From: Sean

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Hi Barry

Sorry to hear about all your problems - sounds like you are being so brave!

I have Ankylosing Spondylitis for 30 years now and have been using diet for over 22 years - it won't undo all the damage but it can help inflammation and further damage.

If you go to www.KickAS.org website you will see lots of great advice on slowing down the disease. On this website they promote a starch free diet (so no biscuits or rice potatoes, bread !) - so really hard to go. BTW this is more than just a bunch of freaks doing a strange diet - it is relation to medical research done by Dr. Brian Ebringer at Kong College from the 1980s. He was one if the first to highlight the role of gut bacteria in autoimmune disease - and has been vindicated by tons of recent research in the last 5 years.

I take magnesium most days - and zinc too and try to exercise as much as I can. (Too much today - ouch!)

I also take a supplement Manganese for connective tissue - which I believe helps me stay a bit less creaky too.

On osteoarthritis - Havard Medical school have done research that has should that osteoarthritis is in fact a low grade inflammatory autoimmune disease - and not wear and tear. I see it as a failure to repair rather than wear and tear.

Keep fighting...

Cheers Sean
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Date: 11.04.2015
From: sleek fox

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

I echo the keep fighting too.
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Date: 12.04.2015
From: Barry

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Thanks Sean, that's really interesting, it's all in the diet, well, most of it, I'll check these people out, there's no way this much damage came from a reckless life, I never had one, my left eye is so painful with a 4 month old infection, I can barely look down at this, so tired of doctors, they never question diet, they never even ask, just pills to get me by, time to totally cleanse my body, thanks, barry
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Date: 12.04.2015
From: Barry

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Sean, I'd really like to know more about the effects of ankylosing spondylosis, how it came about, does it affect your knees, upper back, stiffen hips, I'm completely on my own with this thing, just the I pad, even my physio is vague to put it mildly, barry
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Date: 12.04.2015
From: Barry

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Thanks Sleek Fox for being there, barry
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Date: 12.04.2015
From: Janey

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Hi, can anyone help? I am at the end of my tether. Have got severe pain and swelling in both knees, been like this for years but the last 3 years have been really bad. My old doctor used to give me 3 injections a year in my knees but the new doctor who I have had for 3 years will not give me them. I am a caterer and on my legs all day, I take so many pain killers to try to get me through but they do not work, at night I am awake all night with pain. It is getting to the point of not being able to stand this anymore and the doctor is really not interested just tried to give me tramidol which I do not want to take. 2 years ago had cat scan which shown that both my knees are bone to bone. Can anyone please advise as to what I can do. Please do not suggest exercise as I cannot even bend my knees as they are so swollen. Please can anyone help????
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Date: 12.04.2015
From: Lois

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Hi Barry, you mention you are having problems with your eye. I don't know if it is but AS can cause eye problems in it's self. My sister-in-law visit Moorfields on a regular bases as she has recurring eye infections she has AS.
.
Maybe Sean might know more on the subject.

I would have a chat with your GP.

Take care and yes it is good to chat.
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Date: 12.04.2015
From: lois

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Hi Janey, ask your GP to refer you to a specialist. There is plenty they can do including knee replacements (last resort).
You are entitled to see some one and try the Tramadol they work for so many of us. (short term)
The lack of sleep can be a real problem especially if you still work.

Have you a different GP at your surgery you could see? It is a hard slog to get the best treatment Keep knocking on that Drs door until they give you a referral.

Take care x
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Date: 12.04.2015
From: Barry

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Hi Lois, yes, the eye problem could be iritis, and that's very much to do with AS! If it's an infection still , after 4 months, heaven only know, could end up with septic arthritis, sight loss, time to nail my doctor, thanks barry
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Date: 12.04.2015
From: Barry

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Janey,could ask you if you're overweight, do you twist turn restricted areas, but if you're bone to bone both knees why hasn't your doctor referred you, get another opinion a sap, like Lois said, there are options, injections and meds are generally short term, repeated cortisone injections can cause crystallisation in the joint, actually worsen it, I'm not sure why this problem is affecting both your knees, if this doctor won't refer you, get another one, I'd pay privately to see someone that much quicker, your health comes first, even then I'm a fine one to talk, barry
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Date: 13.04.2015
From: Sean

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Hi Barry

I have had eye flares from time to time and my Dad who has AS too has had recurrent iritis which is heavily involved with AS. My eyes can get very puffy and dry with flaky skin - and very red and sore.

Back to diet - as for me my eyes have been the easiest thing to fix by eliminating cows milk and cream that made so much difference. Quite simply I find if I over indulge with milk, cream / ice cream then I get red rimmed eyes then puffiness then itching and redness. It's been nearly a year since I last had this.

A few years ago I was challenged by other posters to find online evidence - and I found this - where they identified bovine casein as a cross reactive protein following an infection.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12938234

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15288005

The study suggests we have antibodies against the infection - and that bovine milk protein contain similar protein fragments (peptides) to the bacteria - so we react to that too.

It's really hard to suggest diet options if you are reliant on the tramadol - as most NSAID drugs create a more permeable gut and kill the pain - but let more undigested proteins in to the bloodstream. That has been studied and admitted by the medical profession and they are pondering what to do about it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19148789

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1434083/

It is quite likely that other issues that develop after initial arthritis symptoms are due the medication like NSAIDs.

I haven't had any pain killers (apart from 2 lemon power paracetamol for a cold) for over 2 years now - even with a migraine or a sore hip as I know that 2 days after my arthritis symptoms will increase.

With AS the diet approach is all about starving out a gut bug called Klebsiella Pneumoni - which is part of our normally gut flora - Dr. Ebringer identified that Klebsiella has a peptide protein sequence that is identical to a protein that exists in the joint tissues in people that suffer from AS.

So the diet theory for AS is simple - Klebsiella leaks in to blood stream through the gut wall - body creates lots of antibodies - some of which have an affinity to bind to our own tissues = damage

2 ways to fight it this are

1) Keep gut / colon Klebsiella levels low with v. Low starch diet
2) Keep gut as non permeable as possible so the Klebsiella and other stuff cannot get in - low starch therefore helps in 2 ways as it will also take away all gluten containing foods which is proven to open gut wall tight-junctions even in non celiacs. Limit and eventually remove NSAIDs

My knees have had a some stabbing pains over the years but I have found that my exercise actually improves this.

We are all different with unique history and damage - and I am not a doctor - but I would recommend a naturopath / holistic therapist to look at underlying allergies and to get the right nutritional supplements to strengthen your bones. For example - There is some contention over dairy products and calcium supplements - it's interesting to hear that you take magnesium - do you think it helps you?

A normal do or would say to eat lots if dairy products - but I am not convinced that they know the full mechanisms invoked with the balance of proteins in milk / cheese. The Japanese have virtually no milk but much less hip fracture in their elderly.

I don't think there are any magic pills but I think there is plenty that current medicine is ignoring - even though they have colleagues have all these studies piling up on the shelves for decades.

No know cause to arthritis? They say. But it is pretty certain that arthritis like many other diseases is in fact a Molecular Mimicry cross reaction from recurrent infection. Our tissue caught in the cross fire - not the original target of our immune system.

A good start for diets that can help - AS and RA would be the Autoimmune Protocol diets with loads of recipes on the web. Think big salads with any meat - and non starch veggies.

These diets take a lot of commitment and to work you have to be strict - if it doesn't work it cost nothing!

Cheers, Sean
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Date: 13.04.2015
From: Sean

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Hi Barry

Just another one on eyes -

Immune reactions can cross the Blood / Retina barrier and will find an antigen in the eye that resembles the antigen of their original
activation and initiate eye inflammation such as uveitis.

These are called mimotopes and can be provided by environmental pathogens (bacteria) BUT can also be nutritional antigens (e.g. casein from bovine milk.

So your eyes can react to bovine / cows milk in a similar way to bacterial infection.

It is explained here -

http://www.balticconference.com/user/_files/274/Basic%20Immunology_Wildner.pdf
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Date: 13.04.2015
From: Barry

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Sean, thanks for that, I don't drink milk, but I get it in other forms, I'll delete them, I had been managing arthritis, even this awful stiffness lower back, similarly in my neck, but now the panic buttons as its exploding everywhere, I mean it's in my shoulders now, tendinitis problems all down my arms, tennis and golfers elbow, both arms, can barely lift my arms at times, and no work related reason for its happening. This diet will be hard work, running out of those little pleasures in life, but pain dictates, would like to stay in touch, you guys are the only real help I've had with this, ever,barry
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Date: 13.04.2015
From: Barry

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Sean, what I must ask, do you get bladder problems, I've been checked out for prostate, my age, guess I gotta expect it, but I get pain, deep pain between my legs, I find holding my stomache in eg, lifting the front of my pelvic hurdle, stretching the vertebrae, eases things, I do have this bulge in my lower thoracic, an s shaped kink there as well, plus my 3rd vertebrae has as tarlov cyst attached to it in the dural tube, I have neuropathic problems both legs below theknees,aggregated by bending, b
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Date: 13.04.2015
From: sean

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Barry - I'm 49 and have had AS since about age 19.

I've become a health bore to some of my friends (and this forum) and some of my work colleagues - but some have also felt benefit from changing things.

I don't have the same health problems as you do, but my disease touches the same areas, hips, neck, back, shoulders - I have some vertebrae narrowing - mostly from previous damage and multiple bone spurs that show up on xray again mostly from previous damage. So the evidence is there that I have or mostly had a disease.

I 100% swear by ridding the body of all gluten - even without celiac some of the other conditions you have mentioned are regularly mentioned in relation to Gluten reactions (specifically a protein called Gliadin) - look at this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten-sensitive_idiopathic_neuropathies

To my mind everyone with a neurological condition should be placed on gluten free for at least 3 months to see if they can help there conditions.

I'm not a doctor and cannot say exactly what to do - but if you can afford it then seek out a good functional medicine doctor and get a few consultations to set you on the right track / diet.

A few weeks ago - I gorged on carbs with much too much chocolate (including Cadburys Mini Eggs!) - In doing so I am sure I overfed certain gut bacteria because I got a very sore lower back and hip for about 2 weeks - it is easing a lot now.

I was away in Denmark last week - and when at my worse I ate defensively for a few days - with very low carbs. BTW - I once read that Chardonnay can kill the Klebsiella bacteria implicated in my Ankylosing Spondylitis. :)

I guess everything thing we put in to our gut will carve out a particular balance of different bacteria.

I have had Urinary Tract Infection a long time ago - and it coincided with a huge flare up of my arthritis - in fact the same Professor that did the studies of Klebsiella bacteria for Ankylosing Spondylitis also did studies in to Rheumatoid Arthritis and identified Urinary Tract Infection with a bacteria called Proteus Mirabilis as one of the causes.

The protein sequence on the bacteria Proteus Mirabilis matches the tissues of many RA sufferers. There are other bacteria implicate also.

BTW - they don't have to be active UTI - they can fester away silently as sub-clinical infection.

There are a few people on here that also take antibiotics for there arthritis - and I suggest you talk to you doctor as there might be a link between the prostate and arthritis. Remember evidence is that these infections can be sub-clinical and hard to detect.

In fact I found this on the KICKAS site -

http://www.kickas.org/medical/6.shtml

Infection has long been regarded as a likely cause of AS since evidence linking this disease with chronic prostatic infection emerged in the 1950s [20]. It was nearly twenty years later when infection with Klebsiella microorganisms was first implicated in the possible causation of AS


I do lots of stretching too - and I hang from trees :) to stretch my back

Sorry for the long post - and hope you can pass on some of this to a medically trained person to follow and help you more than you are currently being helped.
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Date: 13.04.2015
From: Barry

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Sean, your post will never be long enough, I'm a total amateur at this, the basics alone, removing glute,I believe can take up to a year, I am very stiff, I really hurt , stretching is so difficult, years of driving trucks, rigidity, , my problems first started in my wrists, both together, almost at the same time, I had I in my right toe and ankle, took to riding a bike, then it absolutely exploded in both my knees, in particular under my knee caps, again, both together, then , about 4 years ago in 5 months I lost 20 kg for no apparent reason, I wasn't overweight, that killed my muscle strength, I just aged, now I'm continually tired, sinus problems that just never go away. Back in 2005 my father died, that's when I felt things were going wrong, at that time I contracted MRSA, from him, from my local hospital, I knew nothing about it, then I was told it was systemic, that I was a carrier, I strongly felt that something systemic was damaging me, but no doctor came even close, in fact I've been pointlessly to the mental health clinic 4 times,, those idiots kept telling me it's psychosomatic,put me on nerve drugs such as gabapentin, pregabalin, in the course of which I procured viciously loud tinnitus that left me highly suicidal for more than 18 months, it still presents s real problem, and the tiredness makes it so hard to tackle the overwhelming problem, it's an unseen enemy, all of it, where do I go from here, paying privately is ok, but who, who really knows how to deal with these issues. I appreciate your support, your information, I'll turn my diet around even if I have to starve to do it, barry
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Date: 13.04.2015
From: Barry

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

I have to mention, also, that I don't have fibromyalgia, again doctors tried to label me with that, I went to fibro groups, met so many people, but it wasn't me, this is different, b
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Date: 13.04.2015
From: sean

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

I have had toe troubles too - both feet have developed partial bunion due to inflammation in my big toe - it started when I was about 14 years old.

I was in real pain with lower back 2 weeks ago and my hip and groin area was hurting - just crouching or walking over uneven ground was sending spasms in to my lower back and hip but especially trying to lower myself in to the car and swing my legs in was what hurt the most.

So in short - I am not 100% cured... but I persevere with what has always works for me. It might not work for you - but based on KICKAS.org website and 100s of more people that have reported it might help you.

BTW - I've read quite a bit about tinnitus too - and again this links to dietary deficiencies

I don't want to prescribe anything and I do suggest seeing a Nutritional Therapist or a Functional Medicine practitioner - then ask them about Manganese supplementation for tendons and tinnitus - I call my Manganese supplement Manga-Knees is is stops my knee caps from cracking. Some reading on manganese -

http://hearinglosshelp.com/weblog/manganese-hearing-loss-and-tinnitus.php

http://members.upnaway.com/-poliowa/Manganese%20for%20Tendons.html


I also swear by zinc as part of my regime - but again ask a nutritional therapist - as an excess can reduce iron levels - but on a meaty paleo type diet you would be hard to become iron deficient.

My journey in to the alternative world started when I was about 18 / 19 - when my mother took me to a private clinic (that is still running today) called the Burghwood Clinic in Bansted - but a visit to a naturopath when I was 26 was when I bought in to my new treatment wholesale.

I went from being a 26 year old with a limp in both hips and a back so sore that I could sometimes hardly move - I have such fatigue and brain fog that holding down my job was an effort. I would come home from work and sleep at 5pm.

I had recurrent colds - I had seasonal hayfever - as a teenager my nose always ran (yuck!) and i had common famously loud sneeze fits in the morning - these symptoms all but gone.

BTW - If you are going to avoid Gluten then also avoid Corn.

With you infections I would also suggest that a look at the Roadback website might be of interest - as dealing with dormant, long standing infection would be important too.

I think they have list of doctors that consult on Antibiotic Therapy - but I am not a strong advocate of this. In the long run the ideal is to get off all drugs and try and address true causes. For some AP therapy has given the there life back.

But my AP therapy is diet change - I change my gut bacteria through diet - occasional fasting.
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Date: 13.04.2015
From: Barry

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Hell Sean, you've really been through it, and at such dreadfully early time in your life, you've amassed a fare old bit of knowledge though, I realise there's this corrolation between tinnitus and all this arthritis, both really kicked with only a few months apart, tinnitus basically flares up when I get it wrong, and is does often. Magnesium I take for tinnitus, cider vinegar for removing uuric acid, but also to help with cleansing sinuses, steam inhalation with eucalyptus oil, nasal flushing with pure sea salt, and bottled water, and bicarbonate, I do take 1500mg glucosamine chondoitrin, sometimes cortaflex Ha, omega 3, egg membrane,vitamin pills, the list goes on for arthritis, it's not that I struggle with diet, it's having the confidence to believe, and like yourself, you reach a point when you have no choice, and that's me now. I must look into this manganese supplement, I have awful problems with tendons, and likewise,my knee cracking, and then a flood of nerve pain, that's also up the back of my neck, I was seeing a chiropath just outside Kingston on Thames, but I felt his treatment was a bit of a scam, it was all about realigning the atlas bone, then everything just drops into place, some hope. I will find a nutritional therapist,functional medical professional never really heard of, and I will read this whole thread through again. I've been on a whole mass of antibiotics since Xmas, doxycycline causes tendon tissue damage/pain, but ciproflxicyline is unbelievably damaging, just 4 days into that I was crippled up, took months for the pain in my neck, shoulders, joints generally, to ease, I too want no more. Right now my back is stiff and sore, my neck similarly, I was hoping an I pad would ease things, on a standard laptop there is no position for me,barry
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Date: 14.04.2015
From: Sean

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Hi Barry

Really interesting to hear about the antibiotics...

Magnesium competes with Manganese for absorption - so taking Magnesium can decrease Manganese.

Pineapple is one food with lots of Manganese. I take a solgar brand starch free Manganese Citrate.

If you are going to try some sort of detox elimination diet - I would say be careful with all the supplements - for example cider vinegar often contains barley malt :( - I sometime take a break from my supps and can usually tell when I need them.

Lots of vitamin pills contain starch / corn as fillers. I take Biocare zinc, selenium and magnesium - as these were recommended by my naturopath over 20 years ago.

One thing that I disagree with some on the kickas website about is beers and lager, for me starch restriction should be all grain based foods - one of the foods that I last gave up was Guinness - When I was about 28 I noticed that every time i drank beers my right hip flared and took over a week to settle. By the time I was 30 I was running a half marathon - and was down to 10.5 stone. But instead of beer I've developed a healthy taste for cider - and a slightly excessive wine habit :)

I once read that the malic acid in Chardonnay was an antibiotic against Klebsiella - wishful thinkin but a nice possibility :)

Diets don't need to be non rewarding - this diet isn't for weight loss so you can eat plenty of really good stuff, roasted / grilled meats, gluten free sausages, burgers and if your meds allow to have a few glasses of wine.

One of my top occassional treats is a hot chocolate made with cocoa powder - a little honey, almond milk and a dash of brandy.

You'll find plenty if stuff to eat and enjoy - the main issue is time because you tend to have to cook from scratch.

It's good weather to be optimistic and look forward to something better!

Cheers, Sean
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Date: 16.04.2015
From: Barry

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Sean, sorry, will get back to you, really interested in this conversation, tinnitus and arthritis flare ups right now so tired, talking on 3 forums, my brain appears to have momentarily lost the signal, just ordered organic blackstrap mollases, I'm really taken by this nutritional thing, need to know so much more, just can't take it all in right now, I have to care for my 99 year old mother, my conversations all over the place, so too speak, barry
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Date: 16.04.2015
From: Sean

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Hi Barry - my mother in law takes molasses

Sorry to hear about the flare up - is it back and hip again? BTW - do you ever get rib pains?

Wow - 99! How long to go til the big 100, hopefully you have some of those good genes - my wifes Gparents are 93 and 96 and just had their 73rd wedding anniversary!

It's good to get other opinions too - I found this recipe with Molasses on the kickas website.

It appears that they have sanctioned it as a Starch free food - i.e. wont feed the AS Klebsiella bugs!

http://gourmandeinthekitchen.com/2013/chewy-ginger-molasses-cookie-recipe/#ixzz2jWpoTUwN

Looks amazing!
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Date: 20.04.2015
From: Barry

Subject: Re: Plagued by arthritis

Hi Sean, hope you're still out there, struggling a little right now, the gluten , starch free diet I have to phase out, tramadol etc.. Are now almost gone, ,paracetamol mainly now for this sinus infection, trouble is the doctors want me on 4 weeks supply of amoxicillin, again, after taking that and doxicyclone, steroid nose sprays then a consultant, the probably I'll have to have my airways cleared, but my real problem is tiredness, concentration, have suffered ADHD most of my life, plus this infernal tinnitus, and the brain fog, it's so hard to concentrate. I've read your posts over and over again, really interesting, been looking at Q10 supplement,need to pull myself out of this, breaking the habits of a lifetime , food wise, that's something else as well, can't spend too long on here, back stiffens then this nerve pain worsens in bit legs, your in laws are amazing, if my father was still here they'd have been married 76 years, but he checked out 11 years ago, mums a ton up next May, take care, barry
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