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Date: 20.03.2014
From: lol

Subject: for julie

hi julie thanks for replying started my methotrexate tonight they have started me on 4 which is 10mg they said i needed to start on this they said i had to take folic acid two days after methotexate and only take one but i other people are saying they take it every day any advice they also said i would feel like wiped out the next day how long does it take for side effects to start and can you cope with them im just so frightened i also eat oranges and am going to try and do without them to see if my hands are any better funny enough yesterday i had a good day with my hands and had an orange about an hour later the pain in my hands was really bad then i read what was said about oranges x
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Date: 24.03.2014
From: Julie

Subject: Re: for julie

sorry Lol didn't see your message till tonight.

Im glad your trying mtx, I haven't had any trouble with it. I am now taking 25mg which is 10 little tablets and I do feel a bit tired the next day but its not too bad really, just feel like I want to sit and watch tv all day. I take folic acid 5mg every day except day of mtx it is supposed to help any side effects and mouth sores. Interesting about the oranges isn't it, my hands have been fine since not eating them. Although I am expecting to have a flare because I am so stressed and frightened about going to dentist tomorrow, having bit of trouble with teeth losing fillings etc., don't know if its anything to do with meds but will ask him tomorrow - oh lord now I am having fast heart beats again just thinking of going.
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Date: 25.03.2014
From: Paula-R

Subject: Re: for julie

Hello

Hope you don't think I am butting in here but I would like to add something to this thread.

When I first started MTX I was only on 1 folic acid a day. I took MTX on a Friday and then folic acid the following Monday. NRAS once did a survey on what people took because lots of people are told to take different amounts and on different days. I think it all boils down the what the consultant thinks. I think and I am not certain here but folic acid can hinder MTX working, it may water it down. So with that in mind I suppose it is best to start on a low dose and increase it if needed. When I changed to injections and I noticed a slight hair loss, mine was increased to one a day. I was told to take one on MTX day as well, just about everyone else that I have read about have been told not to take it on MTX day!

I've been thinking about oranges. I was peeling one the other day and did think to myself that if my fingers were bad I would of had trouble doing this. Just a thought, if you did peel it with your fingers, putting extra pressure on them it may be why they hurt an hour later.

I didn't get any side effects at all with MTX apart from the mentioned slight hair loss and I didn't notice that until about a year. It may of been the change from tablets to injections or it may of been that it took a year for me to notice it....something that I will never know the answer to.

Hope you are managing Ok with it.

Paula x
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Date: 25.03.2014
From: Julie

Subject: Re: for julie

Hi Paula, everybody seems to have different ways with their meds don't they, I just do what my rheumy tells me to do. Although I do take 2 folic acid if I have mouth ulcers which isn't very often.

The oranges causing problems with my hands wasn't through the peeling of them (my hubby peeled them for me) it was actually through eating them and drinking orange juice. My knuckles went really swollen and red and were very painful. Since stopping they are fine.

Has the mtx helped your symptoms?
xx
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Date: 26.03.2014
From: Paula-R

Subject: Re: for julie

Hello Julie

Methotrexate has helped my symptoms but now I am taking Enbrel along with it. Been taking Enbrel for about sixteen months now and I am in clinical remission. Was told I was in remission at my three months assessment.

I was hoping to stop or reduce MTX, I am injecting 17.5mg. I really thought it wasn't doing anything when I considered how bad I was prior to taking Enbrel.

However....over Christmas I missed taking three MTX injections (long story and I won't bore you with the details). I remember thinking I would be Ok but I was wrong. By the end of the third week my RA started to get active again. Once I started taking it again it took about 6 injections before I was back to normal. I had to resort to pain relief for the first time since weaning myself of steroids (was put on these while I was waiting to start Enbrel). So yes, MTX does help me.

Paula x
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Date: 26.03.2014
From: Julie

Subject: Re: for julie

Hi Paula, glad that you are in clinical remission. Don't know anyone else who is but that is really good to hear.

I was injecting mtx 25mg but after 4 months found it was getting to me too much for me to do, got so churned up before had to do it, so I went back on the tablets (first started them Feb 2013) I also take plaquenil and sulphasalazine aswell. Been on steroids for past 4 months but weaning off them and am now down to 5mg a day. Hopefully will come off steroids completely soon.

At my last rheumy appointment it was suggested that possibly I might go onto biologic as my crp just isn't coming down enough, last bloods it was 25, which is good for me, it has been over 200, don't know which one she is talking about, but you are the only person I have heard that is in clinical remission so there is hope yet!!

Do you inject Enbrel? and do you suffer any side effects from it. I am trying to arm myself with info for my next rheumy visit in April.
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Date: 26.03.2014
From: Paula-R

Subject: Re: for julie

Julie

I inject Enbrel once a week on a Friday. I have to check the injection first. I check the expiry date, make sure that there is no bits floating in it and that the liquid is clear. I look at this bit of liquid and can hardly believe what a difference it's made to my life.

I haven't had any side effects apart from a small swelling at injection site, this goes down within the hour. Sometimes it may sting a little when I inject sometimes it doesn't. I inject Enbrel into my legs and MTX into my stomach. Rotating sides each week.

I had the ta dah effect the next day with Enbrel, felt so much better when I got up the morning.

I have been very lucky with all my drugs and not had any bad side effects with any of them (had slight hair loss with MTX). Been on sulphasalazine as well. I do think that some people tolerate drugs better than others and I seem to be one of the lucky ones.

My consultant did say that if Enbrel works it is one of the better anti tnf's because you don't build up a lot of antibodies against it. I have read on another forum that someones specialist nurse told them that they like you to take MTX with anti tnf's (10mg the lowest does), because it helps to stop your body making antibodies against the drug, I suppose once you've built up antibodies the drug stops working.

Paula x
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Date: 26.03.2014
From: Tracey

Subject: Re: for julie

Hi, sorry for butting in here just reading your posts. I've been on mtx since aug last year 20mg and 4 x sulfasalizine my crp still up in the 50s so waiting to start an anti TNF (hopefully soon). Didn't know oranges affected the joints I better avoid orange juice see if it helps. I take folic acid every day except day I take my mtx? Only side effect I've had is mouth ulcers, should I take 2 folic acid a day when I have these?
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Date: 27.03.2014
From: Julie

Subject: Re: for julie

Hi Tracey, I don't know if oranges affect everyone but there are quite a few people who have commented that it does for them too. I was actually told to take as much vitamin C as I could by my g.p. nurse (she was new) how wrong she was!! so I think it helps to research things for yourself. I actually fill in a diary each day, have done since being diagnosed so I can see what works for me and what causes problems.

I have a mouth ulcer at minute My g.p. gives me a mouth spray for ulcers which is really good, it is Benzydamine, I don't know if it is only available on prescription, but I do take 2 folic acid if I don't have any spray.

Paula - that was interesting what you said about the reason you need to take mtx while taking Enbrel to stop building antibodies it makes sense. Don't know how you manage to do two injections but then again if it works like it has with you then I would think its worth it, but I don't know if I could do it, then again I might not even have the choice. What was your crp level when they said you were in remission? Did they stop the sulphasalazine and apart from the mtx do you take anything else? sorry to be asking so much.
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Date: 28.03.2014
From: Paula-R

Subject: Re: for julie

Hello Julie

Don't say sorry about asking questions, I don't mind telling you about my experience with RA. It's such a complex illness and still after having it since 2008 I am still learning things about it.

You asked about sulphasalazine(SLZ), it's long story here but I will try to be brief.

When I was first diagnosed I was put on SLZ, 4 a day, it was then increased to 6 a day. June 2010 I had MTX added... 20mg by tablet. September 2011 it was changed to injection. When you inject it you get all of the dose, if you take it orally you lose some of the dose whilst your body breaks it down. My consultant at the time told me that a few extra milligrammes could make a lot of difference and he was right I started to feel the best I had felt for a long time

March 2012 I had a raised ALT (liver function test) and I had to come off all of my drugs, the only pain relief I had was paracetamol. You know when you are doing well and you think to yourself....Do I really need to take all of these drugs?....well I found out after about two weeks that I did need them. I was then introduced to the wonders of orally steroids and felt wonderful.

During the time that I was off all of the drugs I was sleeping so much better that I had been since diagnosis. I realised that SLZ was disturbing my sleep (it is one of the side effects). So, when I started back on my DMARD's I was told not to take SLZ, I was still prepared to take it but my consultant told me not to. My MTX dose was put down to 17.5mg. So there I was, reduced MTX no SLZ so when I had weaned myself off steroids the inevitable happened.....I started to go downhill quickly.

I saw the specialist nurse in the August and she did a DAS score and I scored 7.2 I think that if it is over 5.2 then you qualify for anti tnf's. At that time I was looking after my grandchildren and I was taking them back home so the nurse gave me a steroid injection. I told her about SLZ and that I was prepared to give it another go, she told me to take 4 a day and said that by the time that I had my next assessment they would know if it had helped. My next assessment was to be 6 week later, she said by then the steroid injection would be getting out of my system. My CRP at this time was around 87.

At the next assessment I scored 5.9, my CRP was then around 60. I had qualified for anti tnf's. Whilst I was waiting to start Enbrel I just got so bad, heaven knows what my CRP would of been. I started Enbrel in the November and was told not to take SLZ anymore.

I have fished out a booklet that NRAS sent me about biological drugs, this is what it says about taking MTX with anti tnf's.

You usually take MTX in combination with TNF blockers and almost always with infliximab (NICE only approve infliximab if combined with MTX)because these two drugs work well together and give a better outcome than either alone.

I am to see my consultant in August and I have put a note on my calendar to remind me to ask him about it.

You asked what my CRP is at the moment. They normally like your CRP to be in single fingers. Since being on Enbrel the lowest mines' been is 8 and the highest is 12, at my last blood test it was 10.

I don't mind injecting myself. If you have to do it then you have to. I could of gone to the hospital for my MTX injections but I didn't want the hassle of all of that. I don't think twice about injecting MTX, it is over in a minute and normally totally pain free. I don't like injecting Enbrel in case it stings. The first time it did sting bad I pulled the needle out!! I now just sit there saying to myself....Don't be a wimp, it's worth it....I just have to think that a minute of discomfort once a week is a small price to pay to be pain free!!!!

Just wondering how lol is getting on with her MTX.

Well, so much for a brief post!!

Paula x
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Date: 28.03.2014
From: Julie

Subject: Re: for julie

thankyou Paula for taking the time to give me all the info.

I was only diagnosed February 2013, and that was only after it got to a point where I was bedridden for 3 weeks, unable to do anything for myself, I couldn't even get up from the bed, my husband had to actually lift me up to stand, and he had to carry me to the loo. I lost 2.1/2 stone in 3 weeks I looked shocking.

It was after going private about my thyroid ( I thought the problem was my thyroxine and g.p wasn't listening to me) that the consultant asked me to see a colleague of his, immediately he said that I had RA. I don't even know how I got to the appointment as I had to get myself downstairs, but I am so glad I did.

I was given a steroid injection when I saw him and it started to work straight away, by the time I left the appointment I could walk a lot easier. Then I was referred to rheumatology where like everyone else my treatment started. CRP at highest was 250 but I was really ill. Even though crp is still 25 I feel quite well, its not too far away for me to remember how ill I was and each morning when I wake up I smile because I am not back there.

I started fine injecting the mtx, don't know why after all those weeks it started to get to me, but like you said there are times when you have to think to yourself stop being a wimp and get on with it, if I have to do it again I will do it. We are not given the opportunity to go have injections done at hospital, they train us do do our own early on in treatment. At least its only once a week. I don't go again to see consultant while 8th April but then will be changed to another hospital. Here in Hull we go see head rheumatologists first, then attend the fast track clinic for a year, then go back to the head rheumatologist who maybe is the one who decides if my treatment is working or not.

I hope Lol is getting on okay with her meds, I think I too have a strong stomach because nothing they give me seems to bother me and I don't really get bad symptoms.

Thanks once again Paula and I hope if anyone else reads your post it will give them some hope.
take care
xx
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