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Date: 31.01.2012
From: Martin MacKenzie

Subject: Employment & Support Allowance

I have just received the decision about my ESA claim which I put in 4 months ago. It would appear to me that these people have just ignored all that you have told them and gave you the bog standard reply which incidently doesn't give an explanation as to how and why they came to this descion but leaves you with a month to apply for the reasons behind their descion. You get the impression that they give you the lower decion you are entitled to in the hope that you donot appeal against the decision they make anybody else think that? Well looks like I will have to appeal even for hell of it. So any tips or advice from anybody who has had to go through this process and how successful were you with it. I would be most grateful for any help.
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Date: 31.01.2012
From: macca

Subject: Re: Employment & Support Allowance

Hi, i'm going through this with my wife just now and have a thread on it here. I took on writing my wife's appeal as she didn't have the drive, confidence or mental strength to do it. I would say that getting hold of a list of the descriptors and the points they carry is vital. You'll need this to point out the areas where you feel you should score points but perhaps have not. I got the descriptor list from a free site called Good Advice Matters. Definitely appeal as if you can get your GP to give you regular sick notes then you'll at least get assessment rate ESA whilst you appeal. Also get representation from someone who is experienced in the tribunal service. We are using a welfare rights adviser at our local authority. Good luck with it.
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Date: 31.01.2012
From: Dave S

Subject: Re: Employment & Support Allowance

Hi Martin
I left a post on Maccas thread i was awarded 0 points at my Atos assesment and appealed and was awarded 15 points at Tribunal i got a lot of advice off the benefits and work site which you have to pay for £20 approx but well worth it as there are lots of traps for example
When asked if you watch TV and you say yes as i did , I said my wife watches the soaps it is assumed that you can sit for at least 30 minutes however you may be sat in a comfy chair or lay on the sofa.
The offical question means can you sit on a hard chair, a big difference i think you would agree.
The sita advises about these traps and also about DLA.
Good luck and get your appeal in as soon as possible all money paid is back dated and comes in handy
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Date: 31.01.2012
From: Paula

Subject: Re: Employment & Support Allowance

What decsison did you get? If you got in the wrag and think you warrant the support group, put in gl24 form and you can ask that another dm looks at your claim and they can look at it again. If you were found fit for work, you need a fir note from your GP (keep copies of everything) and send everything recoded delivery signed for you would not beleive how they lose everything. ALso ask for everything to be sent to you via written correspondence, the DWP are famed at denying they have said things or even spoken to you, keep a record of who you have spoken to and when dates and times, so you have proof. The benefits and work site when you become a member have a brilliant guide about appeals. Also ask for the medical papaerwork from DWP if a medical and ESA85 if you did not have one a copy of ESA85A, you are allowed copies of all doctors letters etc if dwp contacted them. If you put on your questionnaire you wanted the doctors contacted and they did not you have one amongst many reasons for appealing, as they have to take all evidence into consideration, whatever doctors you have try and see if they will support you with a letter. It all starts with a fit note. That can be a sticky point, because some GPs are now not supplying them due to pressure form the powers that be, good luck to you all in your appeals, stick with it and don't let the you know whats get you down!
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Date: 31.01.2012
From: Marmac

Subject: Re: Employment & Support Allowance

I've went over their letter again and it just creates more questions than answers. To me it just appears that they have ignored everything about illness, mobility, pain, dexterity, aids used, support you get at home etc (what is the point of asking if it isn't going to count for anything). Seems to me that only a very small percentage of people are ever going to qualify for the support group through severe sensory deprivation or terminal illness, according to them everybody's healthly for work in otherwords there is no chronic illness. So really u've got to be at deaths door before ur ill. CRRRRAAAZZZZY. When these career politicians have to retire I bet they get a really good pension or illhealth plan that they have voted for themselves so they don't have to go through this maze of bureaucracy.
So I've been put on the work-related activity group because they dont recognise RA as a chronic illness, anybody particapating on this already, what happens at that? I suppose ur going to be blackmailed into singning something for a "plan" or ur benefit will be stopped. I do note that "your advisor will support management of your illnes"? if the RA consultant has tried for ten yrs to get this undercontrol hows a civil servant pleb going to do any better? If you have already been been deemed fit to work under medical treatment whats the point in continueing with it as it just makes ur medical treatment null and void ur healthy no illnes?
What is a work-focused health related assessment?Anybody had to go for that?
Thanks to the peeps who have replied so far keep the comments coming so that it gives me the strength to fill in the next form it took me a month the last time.
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Date: 01.02.2012
From: Paula

Subject: Re: Employment & Support Allowance

You can appeal this decision if you do not agree with it. Say to them that you do not agree with this decision,the reasons why you do not agree and ask for a reconsideration by another decison maker on the ESA team before it goes to tribunal . You get paid the WRAG rate while you are appealing. If you did not have a medical, ask for a copy of your ESA85A medical form, any copies of letters from your medical profressinals etc. This will have on the medical report when you can expect to be re assessed. Keep copies of everything and send things to the DWP recorded signed for and it is vital you keep the proof of posting. If you do speak to them on the phone, ask for the person's name and job title, and make a note of it and the date and time you spoke to them as proof. You only have one month from the date of the letter to appeal. You can have your interviews carried out over the phone if you are not well enough to go to them. The WFHRA has been suspended for two years under the Harrington Report, so the job centre can not reasonalbly ask you to go to any medical treatment, and you do have the right to refuse. You are well within your rights to ask the benefits advisor what training they have had in RA. You can have the WFI interviews deferred, although that is up to the Benefits Advisor. If you do appeal the decision to be in the WRAG there is a possiblity they can do that anyway. Don't give up and give yourself a day to get your head around all this take a deep breath and think of the next step. I send you a hug, and let me know how you get on. x
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Date: 01.02.2012
From: marmac

Subject: Re: Employment & Support Allowance

Thanks for the advice I think I'am going to need help with this it seems that am well out of my depth and I dont think I'll have the time to indoctrinate myself to the terms and the way the system works before the dead line as it is always difficult to understand exactly what these people are looking for. WRAG rate, WFHRA WFI interview don't know what these stand for shows you what a novice I am at all this.

Why do you think they never asked me to attend a medical? (not that am keen to do so) they must have thought there was no need or was it because I asked them for a house visit if I was required? It would also appear that after you meet this advisor person they can ask you to go for a medical don't understand why they didn't do this when I returned my form back 3 months ago this was just kill this 12 weeks period to start claim. They must think there is nothing wrong with me but if this is the case why have they put me in the work group and just not put me on job seekers allowance? I've got a sneaky feeling that They have put me on this as they feel I just need some kind of help to return to work or as some kind of test to check if I can get to whereever it is these work-focused interviews are held.

If you write/type to these people they use this as part of their assessment ...... you can write therefore hold a pen ....... you pass that.

If you phone them they can say you can do that.... so this fits in with another part of their assessment for you to be able to take some kind of job which involves these things.

If you talk to them you pass their communication assessment etc ur not anxious or don't have any problem understanding or communicating. You dont have severe sensory deprivation, hearing or speech problem you pass that.


When I told them I could barely walk a couple of feet from my chair what made them think I could haul my ass down to the job centre? or where ever it is your supposed to see this all knowing advisor?

The thing that gets me is that am still being sent for tests etc by the consultant ie MRI scan.

What is contribution-based Employment and support allowance which is taxable?????????????

What is income-related employment and support Allowance?????????????????

You need take a degree course to undertand all this jargon this is while people fail they dont understand how this system works and what they are talking about. Deliberatly designed hard to confuse people so that you do give up.

So many questions, so little experience/knowledge not enough time.
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Date: 01.02.2012
From: Paula

Subject: Re: Employment & Support Allowance

There is a wonderful site called the benefits and work forum, you pay £20 for membership if you want to join. Their appeals guide is brilliant. along with their frequently asked questions. Typer Benefits and Work forum and check it out. To answer a couple WFI is Work Focused Interview. WRAG is Work Focused Activity Group, WFHRA is a Work Focused Health Related Activuity, in others words the job centre to aid your prospects by recommending say talk therapies, or rexlaation courses. This interview has been suspended for two years. The work focused interviews are held at the local job centre by a benefits advisor. There has been a backlog of claims henece why you waited a long time. The Contribution ESA is wher you meet the criteria by paying enough NI contribution. The income related esa means you do not meet the criteria for contributions for NI so get that instread. You only have a month to appeal. You can get help from the CAB office or a wlefare rights advisor with your appeal. You got into the WRAG group because you met with one of the descirptors say you have limited capability for work. If you do not go to the WFI they can stop your benefit. Youu can ask for it to be conducted over the phone if you are not well enough to go. At least you have been spared a medical. A lot of people haven't. Ask whatever questions you like, but the forum i mentioned at the beginning of this post is really excellent, and you will get a lot of answers to your questions there, but you must be a memeber to access their forums and guides, but beleive me it is worth the money!
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Date: 01.02.2012
From: Kim

Subject: Re: Employment & Support Allowance

I am in the work focus group and I have ra. I had to attend a series of meetings which I was eager to do as wuold love to get my pain/health in control and retrain and look to return to work in the future. Unfortunately the private company the government are using decided that my first meeting should take place on the first floor up a steep flight of stairs which I couldnt get up so I had to endure the humiliation of a woman who didnt understand my condition or illness talking very loudly in the middle of a library about me and my problems!I attended about 10 meetings in which they advised me not to put my illness and disability on my cv and offered me no support or advice on retraining, how to look for work what work I should do, so pretty useless! I am now waiting for my health to stablilise before I will look for work which the ATOS doctor said I need to wait for my condition to stabilise for 6 months before considering reurning to work.That was nearly two years ago and my ra has still not improved, so out of my own money I have done a basic commputer course part time to keep me positive!
Im sure everybody on here would love to be able to work as being stuck at home day after day and struggling just to get through each day is no fun and would love these people who make these decisions to experience the pain difficulties we face, they may be more sympathetic to us.
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Date: 06.02.2012
From: sgt pepper

Subject: Re: Employment & Support Allowance

Just back from the CAB which I thought would pick up your case by writting or speaking to these people for you. However all he did was type out what you wanted to ask in a letter for you. I wanted him to ask for a written statement of the decision ask for the ESA85A medical form (which he knew nothing about and it took some convicing that such a form existed)and then ask for the decision to be looked at again by a different assesor but he left this out saying it was two different things and might confuse them??????? then when I got the information required back I was going to ask for the appeals person to look at this and see if it was going to be beneficial to appeal. But this has raised more questions again which he couldn't answer. a) if I ask them to look at the decision again and it comes out the same verdict will this affect your appeal ie they will use this to say they have looked at this twice. b) he said the moment you ask for this information your work interview thing is suspended. I asked for a GL24 form but he was relunctant to supply or type this request in the letter to JCP people. So what do you think is the best way to go about this as I feel I've just wasted the whole morning. The thing about a medical is that I don't think this has been requested at the time of filling in the original ESA application I was waiting for appointments RA dept the OT etc. but am really confused as to what is the best way of going about this and what i should exactly ask them for.
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Date: 06.02.2012
From: sgt pepper

Subject: Re: Employment & Support Allowance

Reply to Kim

Thanks for the reply you seem to be in the same kind of situatioon as I am. I thought that, that was a disgrace that they were going to make you walk up the stairs and the bit about discussing your personal details in public well what can you say, I'd have put in acomplaint about the way you were treated. This is just an example of the things I was trying to explain what is the point of filling in that huge ESA form when they are just going to ignore very thing you say it just makes you suspicious that if you say you have problems trying to walk up stairs they are going to test you by trying to make you walk up stairs it really is pathetic. It is appears that this work programme thing is just an excuse who in their right mind is going to employ a person with serious physical difficulties and chronic condition. Most people would like to work and be healthy and enjoy all the activities before their illness. But until the illness you have has been controled or eliminated appropriatatly people are always going to have complications in a work environment and very few employers are interested in putting in working enviroment ie aids etc to there are 2 mill abled people cuing up to get any time of job. What they tend to forget that it is working that was the catalyst or maintains your poor health condition and as a result life expectancy or quality of life is reduced. I hope your RA improves soon so that you can get the quality of life you deserve. If you have anymore tails re this ESA thing dont hesitate to reply am always interested in the experiences or it doesn't have to be about that.
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